Youth Engagement and Advocacy

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Drug Prevention Power Hour. I’m your host, Jake White from 518. And today we’re talking with Marcus Aloisi. He is a graduate from Virginia and he is working for this incredible organization called Flavors Hook Kids Vermont. He’s the field director out there.

And Marcus, will you just tell us a little bit just about kind of you and then what got you into this type of work?

Yeah, well, first of all, I got a flag and it’s probably my fault. I actually went to the University of Vermont. However, you said Virginia, but it’s okay. It’s okay. It’s the UVA UVM, you know, and given how many acronyms we have to work with in prevention, I’m gonna let that slide Do it forgiven, right?

Marcus Aloisi, I’m born and raised Vermonter and now I’m the field director for Flavors Hook Kids Vermont, which is an extension of the national campaign for tobacco-free kids. And I’ve really got a lot of deep passions around youth empowerment, mental health prevention efforts in all sorts of capacities, whether that’s substance misuse, whether that’s violence, health and wellbeing, technology, and really at any point in the prevention spectrum, whether that be primary, secondary, tertiary. But given my role with Flavors Hook Kids, I’m primarily working with youth around substance misuse and specifically flavored tobacco a lot of times.

Okay. That’s cool. And when we met, so we met out in Vermont and so we did our toolkit training with your group. I remember you were like, we match each other’s energy, right? So like we were having fun meeting people like really into it and having a great time.

I remember too though, our brand is very casual. You were dressed up to the nines, which I didn’t know if it was just because we were going to the Capitol that day, but I was thinking, ⁓ this guy is young, he’s well dressed. And I had the curiosity of if you were into advocacy. You had said yes and then told me about what you’re doing.

I mean, we can go a lot of different places for this talk today, and I think it’s going to be fun for all of our listeners to hear about your perspective and everything, because you are doing prevention work in the field, in Vermont, with students. Are you also doing some sort of advocacy or like what are you doing besides working with students or is that the main thing?

I would say that the main thing is working with youth and within the communities, but I also am a intern and part-time lobbyist for Maidstone Public Relations. And so that’s why I came dressed to the nines at that, because that was at a hotel right across from the state house. And, you know, it just made sense for me to pop over there, do a little bit of schmoozing and taking notes. And, you know, it’s interesting, some people they have these bad view of lobbyists and the influence we can have on policy. I I pride myself in representing the right things, representing Flavors Hook Kids, Mentor Vermont, the Vermont Outdoor Business Alliance. And so I really, I hang my hat on that and I’ve learned a lot about the political sphere and how that really intersects with the nonprofit world so much, so, much. And so yeah, it’s a lot of different hats to wear at one time, but I love it all, I really do.

Yeah, well, you’ve got your lane, right? Of like helping keep youth safe and these things that are going on. And I want to touch on what you said though, because I think you’re right. I think lobbying gets a bad rep. if the quote other side, if like these tobacco companies and alcohol companies and marijuana, like they have so many lobbyists that allow them to do incredible things that are not great for us. We should be empowering lobbyists to work with us in our interests to help save kids. Like that just makes sense. At least to me, I don’t know.

Yeah, I think there’s a reason we hit it off at Prevention Day. think we’re like-minded individuals. One thing that I think about a lot is these big tobacco companies where they’re lobbyists, they just have, they have unlimited funds to pour at people and to give them a higher salary, whatever that may be financially. And for our sort of representation, really is more based on your commitment to public health, your commitment to the next generation. And there is a plethora of people that have dedicated their lives to that in Vermont, in the world. And at the same time, money talks. Money talks, Aaron, I’m sure that there’s plenty of people who have ⁓ steered towards that money in a disregarding maybe what they once might’ve thought. So I think that lobbying does get a bad rep, but you know, there’s a lot of external factors that go into yeah, no, that’s exactly right. remember, so I didn’t share a lot of my story with you when we were together because we were doing the toolkit training, but I remember being on a college campus, getting ready to throw these sober house parties, you know? And I was thinking like, wait, the way people get invited to parties with drugs and alcohol, it’s working. What can I learn from how they market and use it for safe and healthy parties?

And what do you know? Wow, now I have hundreds of students coming to safe and healthy parties because you just take clues from what’s working. so I think whenever there’s that ⁓ maybe a reluctancy to look at something is you don’t have to take everything, but look at what’s working and say, how can I use this for the mission that I’m on? Because that’s how we can grow it. Absolutely.

And to kind of relate that back to flavored tobacco is one of the number one things when we’re talking about new flavored tobacco, tobacco, excuse me, products is, you know, they’re coming in all of these sorts of flavors and all these different packages, things that look like toys, all, you know, cotton candy flavors. Some look like video games. Some, you know, have extra incentive to get there.

It’s all very relatable to youth and it’s cool to youth. And one thing that is just very intrinsically tied with any sort of substance misuse is our mental health and our health and wellbeing. And one thing that I’ve really begun to think about is how do I make prioritizing your health and wellbeing cool? How do I, and that’s a lot of why I was so drawn to you is because I really felt like I was like, he’s got it. Like he knows how to bridge a gap between generations or between understandings and kind of showing the benefits of this way of thinking or this way of doing. And so that’s a big part of what Flavor’s Hook Kids is, is giving them the alternate. Not just showing you that, you know, this is bad for your lungs, this is bad for your brain development, but this is why hydration is good for you in the long run. This is why reading for just 10 minutes a day can benefit you, showing them the alternate, giving them something else to grab onto. And trying to make that cool isn’t always easy.

No, right? that’s so cool. Because you’re right. It’s definitely not easy. And I’m glad that people are, in general, people are pretty appreciative of, know, people in our position, in our field, hey, like this is thing that people say, I wouldn’t be, it’s my worst fear to speak in front of people. It’d be definitely my worst fear to speak in front of a thousand kids or 500 kids or whatever, even 10. And then on top of that, you’re going to have me tell them that using like to hopefully not use a drug or alcohol. And like you said, it’s not about what we’re asking them not to do. It’s about, what are we asking you to try? You, right? Healthy alternatives, different ways to not put your identity in what you consume, like all these things, because young people, they do care about themselves. They care about the world, but they’re also at a time where they’re figuring out their identity. They’re trying on new stuff. They want to fit in with their friends.

And that’s a part of growing up when you’re that age. Marcus, I want to ask you, because you have so much experience and you’re in the field doing it, ⁓ what are you seeing youth struggle with in Vermont? And then what messages do they need to hear as far as your perspective and what y’all are doing that we could learn from too? Maybe our youth are struggling with that, or maybe that perspective in the way that you do this kind of work is going to be helpful for us as well. Anything you can share with us?

Building Trust Through Personal Experience

I think one thing that really comes to mind that youth struggle with in opening up in something that I’ve brought to the table is my personal experience with substance misuse.

And, I grew up with these products. You know, I was, I went into high school in 2016. That was a year after Juul had become a thing. So it was really starting to kind of hit its stride. And, you know, I’m open with youth about that. You know, I’m not trying to, you know, hide that fact in that amount of relatability ⁓ has really kind to seem to build trust in really open dialogue.

Another example is a recovery center that I work rather closely with, Journey to Recovery Community Center up in Newport, Vermont. They have some ⁓ younger ambassador, younger recovery coaches that will go in to the schools, create these personal relationships with youth. And it just seems a little bit easier for us to break through, whether that’s a generational thing, whether that’s in understanding of the exact product. This is actually, we’ve used electronic cigarettes. Somebody from an older demographic might’ve only used cigarettes, whatever it may be. That’s something that I’ve seen to work in really kind of open youth up to being real. And so I would encourage other coalitions that might’ve not already to seek out some younger participants in your coalition and see if you’re able to bridge any gaps that you’ve been feeling like might be missing.

Yeah. And what’s so cool is that the power of your testimony, right? Like that is your story and that student, if they’re using, they’re gonna relate to that. They’re gonna say, I can trust this guy. He’s not just telling me this thing because his job said so or because he saw this poster that threw this number out. It’s like Marcus shows up because he went through this and he doesn’t want me to have to deal with the same stuff.

And it’s like credibility, right? You have done that, you can help me quit because you did. That is so powerful. And I think what’s cool too, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, hey, don’t have a lot of young people in my sphere or recent graduates that have come to me saying, hey, I want to help with this way. One thing that we just did with the local school because we’re plugged in, is we just brought high schoolers to our middle school presentation. And it was a cool mentorship opportunity for the high school. They felt super cool that we invited them and asked them. And their speaking part was less than a minute, but that minute was more powerful than the 44 that we did just before that because anything we share with them, the science, the data, the whatever it is, then you get a young person they’re basically saying you’re a trustworthy source. So if you can’t hire a Marcus or a young person, sometimes it’s just getting that little testimonial from someone closer to their age to say, hey, check this out. This is what I experienced and this is true and this is what’s valuable for me. You know, in our case, it wasn’t necessarily a recovery story, but it was a student saying, this is why I choose to be drug-free. These are my values. These are my goals and the students could relate to that message. And I could see it on their faces, man. I was like, they were locked in to that high schooler, that near peer. It was powerful.

Building Trust in Substance Misuse Conversations

Yeah. And I’m, I’m, I’m confident in saying that if you bring, ⁓ somebody that again, I’ve said it a couple of times that bridges this generational gap to a substance misuse conversation, a prevention conversation that even that one minute can really help build that trust. like, like these people aren’t here just to, to, to spew knowledge at me. They’re here because they care and they have values around this. And yeah, I think.

You know, one of the things I wanted to say, you know, thinking about what I wanted to say when I came on is prevention is most effective when it is rooted in reality, not when you’re using scare tactics and things like that. think Vive does an incredible job of rooting things in reality. I’m not talking about, you know, specifically the damage that smoking is going to do to your lungs, but also the relation that it has to your mental health that it has to brain development, that it has to, you know, when you understand these things and your presented things that are, you know, real, you’re able to make informed based decisions. And that’s really kind of what we’re getting at. It’s, not that you should never take a risk. You should, you should never do this, but we want to get the reality in front of you so you can make your decision not off false tobacco advertisements, but off of what people are really feeling, what the data really says. And it’s a big reason I vibed so hard with Vibe, for sure. So, yeah.

Yeah. And don’t, Marcus, don’t young people really respect you when you come in there and you don’t try to scare them and you’re being real with them about like, hey, here are the facts. I’m not here to like tell you you’re going to implode or you’re going to die or your lungs are going to turn into coal. It’s like, no, this is how the brain works. This is what it does to you. If you’re an athlete, if you’re in your academics, if you’re looking for this, this is how it’s going to affect you. No judgment.

Reality-Based Prevention Strategies

If you’re trying that, like, no judgment from me, but this is the science behind it. Go ahead and make your choice. If you need help, ask for it. that’s the format. think students, they crave that autonomy, right? You tell them what to do. They just revert back to when their parents or caregivers are always telling them what to do or when they were five and six and they always had to be told what to do. So like treating these students as they do.

Maybe three or four years older than they actually are, it builds that rapport. And like you said, builds a sense of we’re talking about reality. We’re not talking about something that’s not applicable to you.

Exactly. know, one way or another, usually the prevention conversation applies to you in a certain capacity. And, you know, talking about treating children as if they’re a couple years older, it brings me to, you know, a topic that isn’t really rooted in my full-time work, rather, you know, theories that I’ve seen as I interact with these kids. And, you know, everyone just growing up in this generation, and it’s that social media has exposed youth and exposed everyone to everything instantly and specifically with youth growing up. They’re growing up in such unprecedented times with global instability, technology overload, misinformation from advertisements, that sort of thing is so when you come in and you name those things and you tie all of that into your message, they love that because I promise you, these kids are smart. These kids are very, very smart. And I don’t want the whole, you know, they have the world at their fingertips to, you know, scare any parents or anything that are watching this, you know, don’t shield your children from the reality and the access that they have, but you should really prioritize, you know, educating them before social media does. And, you know, that’s definitely something that, you know, we try and be cognizant of is that, you these people are probably seeing the inverse to our argument thrown in their faces all the time. Like, vaping is a great way to stop smoking cigarettes. And we know that not to be true. so, being cognizant of the world that we actually live in and how informed that these youth are allows us to be even more real, I think.

Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up too, because I think because you work for the organization that you do, you probably have some insider knowledge or some more current statistics or data. Is there anything that you can share with us just as far as data is concerned or evidence for what is happening with students with tobacco or vaping products that if we’re doing prevention, we might need to hear to stay up to date.

Current Trends in Substance Use

I think, I mean, you got, got to give the good with the bad, right? I think the good is that smoking rates are slightly, slightly down, in terms of, cigarette use. think I see so many different statistics each day. Some say that they’re high. Some say that they’re low. think the fact of the matter is that substance misuse is still prevalent within young demographics and it’s also very nuanced. All of these products are very, very different than what they once were. I go back to the flavors hook kids, that is our mission is specifically around flavored tobacco. However, you you have things like, ⁓ flavored energy drinks, flavored alcohol, you know, all of these sorts of new products that are a little easier to really get into. And so I don’t think that, I think that even if you see that rates of substance use might be trending down by like one or 2 % max.

I don’t think that makes prevention any less important or something we shouldn’t prioritize everyone, hey, park the car. We’re done.

Exactly. It’s a word. We’re not there yet. I promise you, I haven’t seen a statistic that was like, well, why am I doing this? This is we’re good. No, we’re not not quite there yet. You know what? I ideally, you know, for Jake, I think, you know, you and I just kind of and I’m speaking on your behalf. I hope that it gets to that at some point. I hope I hope we have a grasp on substance use in especially young substance use to the point where we can feel like, okay, like we can pump the brakes with prevention, people get it, but I can’t say we’re there yet. I can’t say we’re close either.

The Importance of Prevention

Yeah, that, that ours would be an industry that I would feel, I would be so happy if they were like, we don’t need you anymore. See you. Right? Like, cool. I’ll go find another job. I’ll do something else with, know, with youth or whatever. Like that’s, that’s cool we are, yeah, I think you’re right. I, there’s one that we teach or I don’t, I don’t know we always include it in every presentation, but when they want to talk about tobacco or vaping products is that what’s very interesting to students these days is I feel like some of them know that the vaping device was invented to help people quit smoking cigarettes and like that was the original intent. And then they marketed it that way like crazy is like, it’s a healthy alternative or they always use comparison language, right? Like it’s less harmful in this way, but they don’t tell you it’s more harmful in this way. So I mean the easy things for us to know, or maybe if you’re in the field and you’re listening, is you probably know that the amount of nicotine in vaping products is like five to 10 times as much as cigarettes sometimes. The other thing is I think the study, I don’t know which year it was published in, but the one that we talk about is that the studies are showing that students who begin vaping were like three times more likely to also smoke cigarettes.

I think that’s what one of the data points that we heard. And I was like, that does not go with the origin story, right? Like it’s nicotine, right? It’s getting them addicted to nicotine and it’s really, really hard to break. And one of the things that we tell students, right, is like of my friends in recovery and they’ve, right, maybe tried different substances. The ones that I’ve asked who have used hard drugs, and then quit and those who have used nicotine and quit, they said that nicotine was harder to stop using than things like heroin. And I’m like, what are you serious?

Yeah, that’s definitely reflective of, you know, testimonials that I’ve heard from people in recovery. You know, it’s, it’s true. And it kind of speaks to the, the one thing I hear from my friends the one thing that I feel about my own substance use is that I wish I never started. And that’s like the number one thing, like the root of prevention is delaying that first use.

You know, going back to brain development and the reason that we have laws set in place for you waiting to use for the first time is not because we don’t want you to have fun and we hate you. It’s because we know that your brain is more susceptible to addiction before it is fully developed. And you are able to communicate that with youth. And I really wish more people would because that’s why we have these laws in place. you know, again, going back to the, you know, just, people wish they never started and that’s really kind of the number one thing about prevention. And I really worry about nicotine being that gateway drug to so many other things because it is so highly addictive.

And you also mentioned these incredibly high concentrations of nicotine in these products. The worst part is it can vary from product to product. Some product that’s on your shelves might not actually be a real loon, which is kind of the go-to electronic cigarette here in Vermont. They have QR codes on them and some of them bring you right to Lewin’s webpage, others bring you to an HTML that goes nowhere. And what’s in that? I don’t know. I don’t think there’s anywhere on the package that tells you what’s really in it. And so there’s, could go on and on about how harmful these products can be, about how highly addictive they are. And you know, that’s why, that’s why we do the work.

I, since, right, I love that you said that. That’s why we do the work. And I’m always cognizant of, especially on the show, right? Like we can talk about the problem for days, for months, for years, and it’s gonna still exist. So talking about solutions, about prevention, I’m curious, as you’ve gone out and you’re working with young people and are the formats, is there a percentage?

Actually, let me ask you this. Is it your part of your job to also get the school’s permission to let you come in and do your job and to educate them or does someone else on your team do that?

The Role of Brain Development in Prevention

Definitely on me to get any sort of permission. And that’s not something that has been specifically detailed to me rather again, an important part of trust in relationship building, I think is to, you you don’t just show up for a tabling event, like, Hey, you might’ve heard of me through a third party. You know, that’s not, that’s not the way to go about business. And more importantly, that’s not the way to go about building great relationships too. So I definitely, I work a lot with the SAPs, the people who work with substance misuse in the school to kind of be like, we are a team. I might be an outside extension of what they’re working on, but I’m absolutely a resource.

Okay, cool. And that’s all I gonna ask you is, in the beginning, when someone starts a new coalition or they’re beginning prevention in the community, some of the things are like, oh, we don’t wanna talk about the problem because then it seems like we have one, we don’t want the visibility of that, we don’t wanna take out of class time, we don’t like, there’s some of these barriers.

And so finding a champion in the school to be supportive to you and to allow you to come in and do what you do best, sometimes that’s a little bit of a challenge, but you, I mean, especially from the fact that like you are, I mean, you have experience with lobbying as well, which is all about relationships and giving people messages maybe they don’t want to hear, or they have turned away from in the past. Do you have any advice for someone who might be like, Hey Marcus, how do you get in the schools? What can I do to make sure that I can be better at that? Would you have any advice for them?

Building Relationships with Schools

Yeah. I think I said it when I was answering a question a little, little bit ago, got to give the bad with the good you know, and again, going back to another part of my message, you know, being real, you know, offer offering statistics up, in finding somebody that would have a, a natural attention to substance misuse, somebody like a school nurse is 10 times out of 10.

They’re going to be very supportive of tobacco prevention in the middle school. So finding somebody that already kind of has that predisposition for prevention is super important. And I think also kind of going back to that relationship building, not being persistent, but being consistent and understanding that again, you are building a relationship. are not just no, you have an ask, but you also add these little antidotes like, hope you enjoy the weather today. Little things like that. And that might be more for like a business podcast but you know, but, but that’s really, you know, that’s a massive part of, you know, relationship building and building strong connections and long lasting connections that, yeah, I would say those, those are kind of three big ones. I think that make it.

This is great, this is great a little bit easier to slide into a school, but I’ll be the first to say, I get a lot of no responses to emails. That’s the reality of doing any outreach in any capacity. That’s just kind of, it’s gonna be a reality and being real with yourself about that and knowing that that’s not a reflection of you ever. And so, there’s a lot of things that go into that.

Advice for Effective Outreach

I’m glad you said that. It is not a reflection of you. And just like any job where you have some sort of KPI or performance metric is like, okay, if you’re not getting into any schools, maybe you need some training or some education on it because what you’re doing isn’t working, but it’s never been your issue, right? Like if you’re in this field, you care about young people. You want to do great work. ⁓ Like your heart is in the right place. We can train you.

Thank you. It’s not how to go get appointments, how to talk to show that you’re not going to create more work for that principal, counselor, school nurse, or prevention professional. You’re there to help make their job easier and save their students’ lives with them. That’s the kind of confidence we hope you show up with because your work’s that important. And I’m going to add on to a couple of them that you mentioned because they’re really good and they got me thinking like it.

We are a coalition, like Vive 18 is this nationwide group that’s doing advocacy and education with students and starting these student-led clubs for prevention. And two of the biggest things that we do that I think make a big difference is number one, we really validate video testimonials. So if you think about it, for someone to trust you with their students, that’s probably a lot to ask. What if you say something really stupid or really, really off putting and they, they come back and they tell their parents that principal is going to get chewed out because of you. So just realizing like they’re putting something on the line to bring you in, even if you’re a free resource. So if you can have a video from another principal or another nurse or counselor saying, we just had Marcus from flavors hood kids, Vermont, Vermont, he was incredible. The students loved him. They got a lot out of it. We would love to have him back. Boom. Now the principal is like, yeah, well, they did the lifting for me. So yeah, you can come to my school too. So everyone, please use video testimonials. The second one is that personal touch that you mentioned about like talk to them about other things. them an encouraging note for today. And so what we love to do is like about that.

Thank you cards have kind of become a thing in the past and we love thank you cards. So we want to remember every single partner and we work with hundreds of partners per year. So it’s tough, but we try to take a picture with every partner, send them a thank you card with our, you know, us together and just tell them some encouragement about the day and why we appreciate them. And what a great start to a relationship that can continue when Marcus comes to my school he actually makes me feel like the rock star, even though he was the one sharing the education. I open the door for him and he makes me feel good for that. So I’m gonna accept his calls and his emails.

Yeah. And you know what, Jake, I just want to say a personal thank you for sharing, sharing both of those with me because we started off at the top of the hour talking about how I just graduated from the University of Vermont last year. And I just found myself in this role in January. And so I’m new to it. I’m like everything, a lot of the things I’ve just talked about have been totally on the fly that I’ve been like, okay, this works.

That really didn’t work. so, you know, the real message there is never stop striving for improvement. There is, there’s a million ways that once we hang up this and I’m able to look at the audio, I’m going to be able to critique myself and say, okay, I want to go this way. And the same, the same should be said with, with prevention, with sharing your message, anything in life.

Dude, I love that, because it’s your craft, right? You want to be better at it. Yeah. that’s cool. We’re getting towards the end. So Marcus, I want to just ask you, is there anything you were hoping to share that we didn’t get to cover yet?

Health Equity in Prevention

Yeah, let me, let me take a look here. You know, I think the number one thing that I want to share in our, our conversation just didn’t lead down this, this route, which is, which is okay. ⁓ but it’s, talking about health equity, and how health equity and prevention are very intrinsically tied anything that has the, the word equitable right now is put under a extra set of scrutiny when it shouldn’t be. And also as it relates to flavored tobacco, the fact of the matter is that menthol cigarettes and new ecigarettes are disproportionately used by historically marginalized communities. And with that in mind, it’s essential that we approach prevention through an equity lens. Because it isn’t just about banning vapes for me, it’s about addressing systemic harm. there’s a long list of things, you know us, we could have sat here and talked for two hours. But I didn’t wanna end this call without naming that because I have a deep commitment.

Dude, yeah to advocating for equitable health outcomes and equitable realities for everyone. And so I appreciate you giving me the space to say that because it personally, it impacts and it’s definitely on the forefront of Flavors Hope Kids mind as well.

Yeah, I’m glad you brought that up because as something that I don’t talk about enough is that that’s absolutely correct. And part of the lens we look through our coalition and prevention work is cultural competence. it needs to mean that you also know your demographics, who you serve, what’s valuable to them, and how these systems are harming certain populations because as you said, our country right now under its current leadership is like, they’re cutting all that stuff. And it infuriates me, right? Like I’ve chosen my battle of prevention and I know that equity is a part of that battle. And so I often don’t know what to do. But if this is a platform to spread awareness of it and for everyone to also know where I stand, like whether that makes you a fan of me or not, that doesn’t matter.

I think that to not protect equity is predatorial. It’s saying, I’m going to prey on these people so that I can stay on top. I can be well-fed. I could do this. And I see that. I would call it that. And that’s why I’m like, I’m glad that you brought that up.

And it’s something that I knew I was going to have to bring up because it’s a part of me. And like I said, I wouldn’t be able to talk about these things like mental health and substance misuse without bringing that into it because I know how much of an impact it has. And we have this tendency to just kind of shy away from the conversation right now.

But the best things in life are also the hardest. And like you said, Jake, ⁓ I don’t particularly care who feels a certain type of way for me adding that in there at the end, because I think the number one thing we can do is call things out for what they are. And I try and do so in the utmost respectful way as possible. And I know you do too. And it’s just about going back to the whole like we’re forever improving. We’re forever improving. And there’s different ways to talk about this different language that you have to adjust to. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk about it. The hard conversations are the most important ones. And that kind of summarizes everything we just talked about. And so I really, I’m so grateful for this opportunity, Personally, it was just nice to see you again, my man. Thank you.

You too, Marcus. Marcus, how old are you?

And yeah, I’m 23. I just turned 23 at the end of April. And so.

Dude, Marcus, well, I just want to tell you, I am super proud of you. I’m proud of your character, who you are, that you bring all of you to your work and that you’re such a coachable person. dude, we’ll keep in touch. I’m following your journey. If there’s ever a way to work together again, I’ll jump on the chance. ⁓ I just, can’t tell you enough. I’m really proud of you and that you’re in this field with us. Like we have an asset.

Thank you. with you, Vermont has an asset. So whatever I can do to keep you in the field for as long as I can, you let me know, right?

Yeah, I certainly will. that really touches my heart. you know, I want to share my extensions to you as the originator of Party Zero and Vive 18. You know, you’re one of the pioneers for this stuff. And I’m eternally grateful that shout out Prevention Works, shout out Best Raider, Taste of Linge for getting you to Vermont.

And the fact that I went to the second day and I had the breakout room. And so, you know, I’m really, I’m so appreciative of you for everything that you do, everything that you provide people around the country, the fact that you’ve paved the way for people like myself. No, thank you, really do appreciate

I don’t know if all that stuff’s true, but I’ll take it. And I promise you you have, promise you. I’m always, I can’t take all your kind words either, you know, like, you know, that’s what keeps you humble. That’s what keeps you moving towards the next thing. And so, you know, thank you, Jake. I appreciate your kind words. I appreciate the opportunity.

They go. They go. Yeah for sure, Marcus. hey, you’re listening to this, this bromance going on should tell you that things are better together. You know, we do prevention way better together. We need this encouragement sometimes because we get rejected by the schools, maybe the student, you know, it’s like stuff still happens in schools and it doesn’t mean we’re not doing our jobs. We’re planting seeds. Sometimes we’re watering. Sometimes we’re seeing them grow. And so if you need anything, check out Marcus and his organization. Flavors Hook Kids Vermont. They got a ton of resources out there as well. And then of course, Vive18.com if you need to help get students involved in prevention. We love doing that work and we’d love to support you. And thank you for staying in the game everybody who’s listening. I hope you have a great work week. We’ll see you next Monday for another episode of the Drug Prevention Power Hour.